• Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate

    From Dennis Katsonis@3:633/384 to Bo Holt on Monday, April 13, 2026 23:31:00
    Bo Holt wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-

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    |03Quoting message from |11Dennis Katsonis |03to |11Mortar M.
    |03on |1112 Apr 26 11:25:58|03.

    Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate Starlight
    By: Mortar M. to Dennis Katsonis on Sat Apr 11 2026 01:41 pm

    Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate Starlight
    By: Dennis Katsonis to marika on Fri Apr 10 2026 22:44:14

    To be frank, C64 basic wasn't that great, even back then.

    Agreed. Considering the number of Commodore micros already in the wild, yo think they'd have improved the BASIC for the VIC and 64, as these were inte for non-computer savvy people.

    My first computer was a VZ 200, which predated the C64 (I think it was s as a V-Tech 200 in the US.

    I vaguely remember reading about this in magazines, but never actually seen one. After looking it up online, I can see why. It was only around for tw year and had low specs. No way could it have competed with the likes of th C=64 or even the Atari 400. However, it did not pre-date the 64. The VZ-2 came out in '83, while the 64 came out a year earlier.

    I got the VZ200 in 1991, quite a bit after it release. My parents got it garage sale cheap (buying a new computer was a bit much back then, just fo to use). It was a bit dissapointing as I wanted the Atari 1040STE, but as had just been introduced to BASIC at school, it was fun to try BASIC at ho and draw graphics and make basic games.

    Dick Smith started an electronics store called, Dick Smith Electronics, an VZ 200 was their rebrand, sold with his face on it.

    A little later that year, they got a Vic 20 at a garage sale, which had be graphics, but lacked the drawing commands. A little later, the C64 came, second hand. You could do sprites, but again, no graphics. Not without entering some other machine code subroutines.

    I suppose they had to get it out quick, and once it was out, you can't pat it.
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    I am 45. My gradnfather got me a Timex Sinclair when I was 2, CoCo2
    when I turned 5 (really cut my teeth on that one), then his
    hand-me-down Amstrad PC1512DD when I was in the fourth grade, and then
    in 192 started as an apprentice at our local computer store and learned
    to build machines and built my 486DX-33. I never stopped working in
    the field since I started in 1992, and I started BBSing back on the
    CoCo2. I never knew anyone with a Commodore when I was growing up, so
    I'm enjoying living an alternate-reality childhood with the C64U. I'm trying to spark an interest in computers with my nephews and nieces
    (they are much younger than 5 still), they already love allmy vintage electronics I bring, and it's fun to play with these things with them.

    I did get my daughters to enjoy a few Commodore 64 games on the
    emulator, mainly "Ducks Ahoy", "International Soccer" and "Decathlon".
    they watched my play "Beamrider" which was a favourite of mine too.


    Never got them into programming. They have Windows laptops now, and
    use those, but aren't that interested in learning how they actually
    work.

    Its hard to get them intersted, as there are so many distractions.
    One thing that helped our generation, was when you got those
    microcomputeres, there wasn't much eles you could to but program.
    Now, a new computer instantly has internet, YouTube, all the
    distractions. Back then, there was nothing, so may as well go through
    the manual.

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  • From Dennis Katsonis@3:633/384 to Mortar M. on Tuesday, April 14, 2026 23:48:00
    Mortar M. wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-

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    Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate Starlight
    By: Dennis Katsonis to Mortar M. on Sun Apr 12 2026 11:25:58

    I suppose they had to get it out quick, and once it was out, you can't patch

    Nope. However, the BASIC and Kernal ROMs were socketed, so it is
    possible to replace the originals with new ones. However, Commodore
    was a very cost-conscious company so such an expense would've probably been rejected outright.

    The problem is you can't rework the already sold units. Then you have incompatible BASIC variants, leaving the original buyers in the cold.

    The addon basics, like Simon BASIC were probably the best option,
    though I never used any seriously.

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  • From Mortar M.@1:124/5016 to Dennis Katsonis on Tuesday, April 14, 2026 10:05:37
    Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate
    By: Dennis Katsonis to Mortar M. on Tue Apr 14 2026 23:48:00

    Nope. However, the BASIC and Kernal ROMs were socketed, so it is
    possible to replace the originals with new ones.

    The problem is you can't rework the already sold units.

    I believe I just indicated you could. If Commodore followed this path, the chips could've been sold as an upgrade, for those who wanted to make the change.

    Then you have incompatible BASIC variants, leaving the original buyers in the cold.

    Unlike business systems where compatibility is important, the home market at that time had no such need. As you indicated, there were already numerous BASIC dialects in the wild, by Commodore and third-party vendors and thanks to various sources like magazines, user groups, etc., most were supported in some fashion.
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